Comments for Tasmanian Ultimate AssociationTasmanian Ultimate Association http://www.tasultimate.com Ultimate frisbee is a fun, friendly and competitive team sport, great for people of any fitness or skill level. We would love you to join us! Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:53:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 Comment on Rule of the week – Who can make an ‘out’ call? by TUA › Rule of the Week – Followup http://www.tasultimate.com/2011/07/rule-of-the-week-who-can-make-an-out-call/#comment-23 TUA › Rule of the Week – Followup Wed, 27 Jul 2011 08:53:25 +0000 http://www.tasultimate.com/?p=1205#comment-23 [...] This is a followup to the previous discussion of Rule of the Week, which you can read here. [...] [...] This is a followup to the previous discussion of Rule of the Week, which you can read here. [...]

]]> Comment on Rule of the week – Who can make an ‘out’ call? by Andy Cole http://www.tasultimate.com/2011/07/rule-of-the-week-who-can-make-an-out-call/#comment-22 Andy Cole Tue, 26 Jul 2011 03:10:10 +0000 http://www.tasultimate.com/?p=1205#comment-22 I agree with Mas, "best perspective" is the point of contention... in the old 8th edition UPA rules when I first played, the rules explicitly said this was "usually the receiver", and it was standard even at pretty high level tournaments for the game to be played where the final call did rest with the receiver and the disc never got sent back to the thrower if the receiver called himself in. In the early 90s when the sport expanded enormously, there was a big growth of teams that tried to ignore spirit-- they'd openly say "contest every foul, foul every throw, always call yourself in". The 9th edition rules tried to put a stop to that by eliminating ambiguities and clarifying potentially confusing points, until now it just defaults to the player with the best perspective, and allows for observers, etc. I don't know the corresponding history for the WFDF rules, but I think the final word is and always has been in every version: If there is ever failure to come to an agreement over any call, the disc reverts back to the thrower after a check. Incidentally in the heat of an intense game I am quite likely to get really irritated if someone calls me out (or not in the endzone) on a close catch. Don't take it personally, it's only because I was taught that it's bad spirit to do that, way back when, and never managed to reprogram that part of my brain. I agree with Mas, “best perspective” is the point of contention… in the old 8th edition UPA rules when I first played, the rules explicitly said this was “usually the receiver”, and it was standard even at pretty high level tournaments for the game to be played where the final call did rest with the receiver and the disc never got sent back to the thrower if the receiver called himself in. In the early 90s when the sport expanded enormously, there was a big growth of teams that tried to ignore spirit– they’d openly say “contest every foul, foul every throw, always call yourself in”. The 9th edition rules tried to put a stop to that by eliminating ambiguities and clarifying potentially confusing points, until now it just defaults to the player with the best perspective, and allows for observers, etc.

I don’t know the corresponding history for the WFDF rules, but I think the final word is and always has been in every version: If there is ever failure to come to an agreement over any call, the disc reverts back to the thrower after a check.

Incidentally in the heat of an intense game I am quite likely to get really irritated if someone calls me out (or not in the endzone) on a close catch. Don’t take it personally, it’s only because I was taught that it’s bad spirit to do that, way back when, and never managed to reprogram that part of my brain.

]]> Comment on Rule of the week – Who can make an ‘out’ call? by Masni Bennett http://www.tasultimate.com/2011/07/rule-of-the-week-who-can-make-an-out-call/#comment-21 Masni Bennett Mon, 04 Jul 2011 02:36:36 +0000 http://www.tasultimate.com/?p=1205#comment-21 Hm. My thought is that the use of "best perspective" in the rules is the misleading point, and that the paraphrase to "good perspective" in the interpretation document is more clear and correct. i.e. I don't think "best" is supposed to mean the singular, most accurate perspective out of a number of perspectives, but rather, a good/better perspective than others. With that interpretation, no one can claim to have the (singular) best perspective. In your example, Player A and Player B could jointly claim the best (good/better) perspective. Player B is the opponent who is calling "out", so Player A can disagree and call "contest". Thanks for the post, Joe! Nutting out one rule at a time for the benefit of all :D Hm. My thought is that the use of “best perspective” in the rules is the misleading point, and that the paraphrase to “good perspective” in the interpretation document is more clear and correct.

i.e. I don’t think “best” is supposed to mean the singular, most accurate perspective out of a number of perspectives, but rather, a good/better perspective than others.

With that interpretation, no one can claim to have the (singular) best perspective. In your example, Player A and Player B could jointly claim the best (good/better) perspective. Player B is the opponent who is calling “out”, so Player A can disagree and call “contest”.

Thanks for the post, Joe! Nutting out one rule at a time for the benefit of all :D

]]> Comment on Rule of the week – Who can make an ‘out’ call? by Jason de Puit http://www.tasultimate.com/2011/07/rule-of-the-week-who-can-make-an-out-call/#comment-20 Jason de Puit Sun, 03 Jul 2011 11:31:19 +0000 http://www.tasultimate.com/?p=1205#comment-20 In my opinion it is tough to argue that the person catching the disc has the best perspective as to where their foot landed. When catching the disc the eyes of the player will be on the disc! If you're not looking at the disc you probably won't catch it. A lot of players jump to catch the disc and could then quickly look down to see where their foot lands but I am still unconvinced that this would constitute best perspective. This is especially the case in outdoor where there are no lines and the boundary must be considered by looking up the field to see where the end-zone cones are. I am included to agree with you Joe. As with any "call" within Frisbee a single player cannot dictate the resulting outcome. If the offensive player disagrees with the defensive players call of "out" then the disc should return to the thrower. I did briefly think "what happens if all the people with best perspective are on the offensive team?" but then figured that, in that case, no-one would really be in a position to call "out" and if they did the same precedent would apply. If the offensive player who caught the disc disagreed, then back to the thrower. In my opinion it is tough to argue that the person catching the disc has the best perspective as to where their foot landed. When catching the disc the eyes of the player will be on the disc! If you’re not looking at the disc you probably won’t catch it.

A lot of players jump to catch the disc and could then quickly look down to see where their foot lands but I am still unconvinced that this would constitute best perspective. This is especially the case in outdoor where there are no lines and the boundary must be considered by looking up the field to see where the end-zone cones are.

I am included to agree with you Joe. As with any “call” within Frisbee a single player cannot dictate the resulting outcome. If the offensive player disagrees with the defensive players call of “out” then the disc should return to the thrower.

I did briefly think “what happens if all the people with best perspective are on the offensive team?” but then figured that, in that case, no-one would really be in a position to call “out” and if they did the same precedent would apply. If the offensive player who caught the disc disagreed, then back to the thrower.

]]> Comment on Rule of the week – Who can make an ‘out’ call? by Joe Boyer http://www.tasultimate.com/2011/07/rule-of-the-week-who-can-make-an-out-call/#comment-19 Joe Boyer Sun, 03 Jul 2011 09:57:44 +0000 http://www.tasultimate.com/?p=1205#comment-19 My personal opinion? Rule 13.2 is the clincher here. It says that if it's unclear and EITHER team disagrees, they can contest. I don't see anything that overrules that rule in that situation, which means the disc should go back. I can't find anything to indicate that the final decision rests with the player with the disc. It's not what's been interpreted here previously, but I think we've been wrong. My personal opinion? Rule 13.2 is the clincher here. It says that if it’s unclear and EITHER team disagrees, they can contest. I don’t see anything that overrules that rule in that situation, which means the disc should go back. I can’t find anything to indicate that the final decision rests with the player with the disc. It’s not what’s been interpreted here previously, but I think we’ve been wrong.

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